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Racing Results

Series 2 Race 5
Author Last Post
7/19/2017 3:05 PM

I think it is great that some boats went on and sailed their own race.  We should always support getting out and having fun.  In the past we have had boats informally race after other abandoned races.  Once the race is officially abandoned it is fine to get on the air and organize an informal race. 

 

In my opinion, the original post was not criticizing nor attaching the RC.  Just pointing out a different point of view.  Here are some more opinions to ponder:

 

1.       Coyote was reading 3.5 – 4.8 of true wind speed, steady from the SW.  We stopped twice to confirm the true wind speed as we were not feeling any of this at deck level.  There was little to no visual current to effect the boats at the start.  There were even some boats that were sailing around (not your fastest rated boats either, just boats with average speed).  I do not argue that the race should have been started, it would have been a fair race, or the race would not have needed to be abandoned after it started (nothing at the time gave me confidence that the wind would hold or build).  I wonder if this race occurred in November/December (part of the casual!!! Frostbite Series and temperatures much cooler) would the opinions on rather to race or not be different?  I think it would, at least it would for me.

2.       In any race there is always an element of luck, but too often in extreme light air luck plays too great a factor in the outcome.  There is always a struggle between fairness of a given race vs fairness in regard to series or year-end awards, especially for extreme light air races.  CBYRA does not count races that do not meet a minimum average boat speed in their End of Year awards, but the boat still gets a score and pickle dish for the individual race itself (after all, for the given conditions of that race and rather luck was involved or not, the boat that won was the best boat for that race).  Depending on how much weight you put into series/year end awards will also influence you opinions on when to abandon a race due to light winds.

 

Let’s work to unite the Blue and Red opinioned racers and Make HHSA Racing Great Again!!!

Rich G.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 19, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

Hank and others,
I almost regret starting this thread and I did not intend it to be taken as a criticism of the RC's decision. As a relatively new addition to the racing community, I'm still learning and welcome the wisdom of experience. I started the thread primarily to celebrate the good fortune of a surprisingly pleasant night's sail. My view on starting races in dubious conditions has been modified and enlightened by the posters to this thread. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The stories that others have posted about the agony of a windless, drifting race echo my own pain of sagging sails on glassy seas.

On another topic:
Ironically, Spirit is RC for the Great Bay Race. All my crew have departed on ill timed vacations. I need a few (2-3) people to help on Sunday - preferably someone that knows the location and combination of the shore locker and has done RC enough to show me how. Any volunteers?
Tom W.
7/19/2017 1:11 PM
Hank and others,
I almost regret starting this thread and I did not intend it to be taken as a criticism of the RC's decision. As a relatively new addition to the racing community, I'm still learning and welcome the wisdom of experience. I started the thread primarily to celebrate the good fortune of a surprisingly pleasant night's sail. My view on starting races in dubious conditions has been modified and enlightened by the posters to this thread. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The stories that others have posted about the agony of a windless, drifting race echo my own pain of sagging sails on glassy seas.

On another topic:
Ironically, Spirit is RC for the Great Bay Race. All my crew have departed on ill timed vacations. I need a few (2-3) people to help on Sunday - preferably someone that knows the location and combination of the shore locker and has done RC enough to show me how. Any volunteers?
Tom W.
7/18/2017 10:57 PM
I forgot to mention the time when a race was started in near calm conditions, and we crossed the start line stern first, drifting on the current.  No thanks!

Hank

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me.  In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call.  More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay.  There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE.  During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.


Your humble curmudgeon 


Kent Kunze

"Glissade "


Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:




Tom
 I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
Les
On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

   Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit   


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7/18/2017 10:57 PM
I'm late getting in on this, but I've been in the same situation several times. Once when we were RC, we had to abandon after the wind died just when we were setting up to start the first sequence.  It had previously been calm , we waited a half hour, a 6 kt breeze came up, we were about ready to start when it died for good.  I totally agree with Kent and Keith.  If you can't get a fair race off, it must be abandoned.  There's just no telling what the wind is going to do on nights like we had last week.

Cheers,
Hank

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me.  In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call.  More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay.  There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE.  During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.


Your humble curmudgeon 


Kent Kunze

"Glissade "


Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:




Tom
 I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
Les
On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

   Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit   


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7/18/2017 1:30 PM
We appreciate all comments. This task/responsibility is never as easy as it seems it should be. We are relatively new at this. But, after 15 years I think this is the first time we have abandoned. We have shortened several. It is always a hard decision. The comments of my more experienced fellow racers have been pretty comprehensive. Regards, Will

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> While Second Wind enjoyed the after race race, I would be remiss if I did not recall the time about 15 years ago when I was on the race committee in almost the same conditions except for a strong ebb current which permitted boats to drift from the starting line at R2 to a finish at G1. I allowed the race to proceed, which favored the full keel boats, which never won--except for this time.
> Following the race I stopped counting after reading the 100th email, none of which were what might be called supportive. I repented, recanted and pleaded for forgiveness offering to agree to the ultimate punishment of never being allowed to do race committee work again. Regrettably the proffer was not accepted. Race results, however, were nullified. Moral of story: you can't win. That said, yes, I painfully concur that Uncloudy Day made the right call.
> Joe Howell
> Second Wind
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 18, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me. In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call. More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay. There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE. During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your humble curmudgeon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kent Kunze
>>
>> "Glissade "
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>> I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
>> The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
>> Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
>> It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
>> Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
>> Les
>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>>
>> Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
>> Tom Wiltshire, Spirit
>>
>>
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>> Change preferences (including opt-out): https://HHSA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=13&club_id=8237
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> You have received this message as a member of: Herrington Harbour Sailing Association
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7/18/2017 1:00 PM
While Second Wind enjoyed the after race race, I would be remiss if I did not recall the time about 15 years ago when I was on the race committee in almost the same conditions except for a strong ebb current which permitted boats to drift from the starting line at R2 to a finish at G1. I allowed the race to proceed, which favored the full keel boats, which never won--except for this time.
Following the race I stopped counting after reading the 100th email, none of which were what might be called supportive. I repented, recanted and pleaded for forgiveness offering to agree to the ultimate punishment of never being allowed to do race committee work again. Regrettably the proffer was not accepted. Race results, however, were nullified. Moral of story: you can't win. That said, yes, I painfully concur that Uncloudy Day made the right call.
Joe Howell
Second Wind

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me. In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call. More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay. There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE. During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.
>
>
>
>
> Your humble curmudgeon
>
>
>
>
> Kent Kunze
>
> "Glissade "
>
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Tom
> I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
> The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
> Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
> It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
> Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
> Les
> On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:
>
> Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
> Tom Wiltshire, Spirit
>
>
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> Change preferences (including opt-out): https://HHSA.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=13&club_id=8237
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>
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7/18/2017 12:45 PM
Fully concur Kent.

Also, I do not think we should start races when there is not enough consistent wind for boats to start and clear the line before the next class. Conditions should to allow for a fair start and a fair race.  We did not have that last week.

Keith 



Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Racing Results <results@hhsa.org>
Date: 07/18/2017 12:07 (GMT-05:00)
To: keithmayes@rcn.com
Subject: re: Series 2 Race 5 <$176815936051$>>





I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me. In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call. More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay. There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE. During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.




Your humble curmudgeon




Kent Kunze

"Glissade "

Sent from my iPad
On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

  


Tom
I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
Les
On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

  Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit


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7/18/2017 12:00 PM

I guess there is always one curmudgeon in the group and that's me.  In my humble opinion the committee boat made exactly the correct call.  More often than not, as we approach the end of the day the wind drops in Herring Bay.  There is nothing so frustrating as being out there drifting with the current waiting for no one in your class to cross the finish line in the allotted time, or even worst, waiting for TLE.  During the time we waited I never saw 5 knots of wind nor did Wind Alert (sail flow) at number 1 show 5 knots. I understand how we all want to race after we and our crews drive out there and do all the prep work, but drifting is not racing.


Your humble curmudgeon 


Kent Kunze

"Glissade "


Sent from my iPad

On Jul 14, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:




Tom
 I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there.
The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun.
Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself.
It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew.
Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,
Les
On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

   Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit   


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<<
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7/14/2017 10:52 PM
Tom

I second that humble request and raise it to a "those interested" lets sail like kids run; cause its there. 

The call to abandon was justified and verified; thats the rules. But the college student we invited onboard was so excited I raised the offer to switch up to VHF 69 "if you want to join us" (on a rabbit start I was reminded) I saw myself when I was his age; the opportunity to sail a keelboat after FJ's and 420's, sunfish; even the most experienced AYC JAM would jump at the chance to sit in 6 knots of wind. We were glad to hear Second Wind call in on 69 to join in the fun. 

Points or no points; the 3 or 4 times a year I will be available to race (unless I see barefoot skiers or gale force winds those rate times) well; in the end, the race is with yourself. 

 It was also great for my crew to practice light air (well, up to 15 knots further south) maneuvers and right of way rule applications. Also training new enthusiastic crew. 

Thanks for the sailing practice and post Tom,

Les

On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Racing Results <results@hhsa.org> wrote:

Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit
7/14/2017 6:32 PM
Last Wednesday was a gorgeous night for sailing. When the race was cancelled Spirit, Second Wind and Gaia decided to race from A to G1 and back. The wind freshened as soon as we rounded A for our start and built all the way out to G1 and back. It was so nice, we did it a second time. Thanks to our PHRF ratings we had a miraculous three way tie for first! I humbly suggest that the next time we have a light wind “go/no go” situation, we start all classes on time and let the RC abandon the race if the wind dies. If we had done that last Wednesday, I’m pretty sure everyone would have found enough wind for a short course and still made it to Skippers. As it was, our 3 boat light air race allowed us to practice light air tactics and still have a great night out on the water. I only wish I had thought of offering a Rabbit start for fun to all the boats that wanted to practice light air racing. Maybe next time.
Tom Wiltshire, Spirit
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